Panel Discussion Explores Mixed-Use Development Across the Southeast

As the Southeast continues to experience significant population growth, business migration, and evolving workplace and lifestyle preferences, mixed-use projects have moved from "nice to have" to a core strategy for cities and developers alike. But the definition of what makes a mixed-use project successful is changing rapidly, and today looks different in Charlotte, Atlanta, Charleston, Greenville, Raleigh, and Columbia from what it was five years ago.

A panel discussion addressed these changing definitions of success at the second annual Southeast Real Estate Expo, held May 6, 2026, in Greenville.

Integrated Media Publishing Editor David Dykes moderated the discussion. The panelists were:

• Mary Katherine Phillips, senior director of investments at Edens

• Reggie Bell, CEO of RealOp Investments

• Dan Doyle, president, The Beach Company

• Austin Wilson, principal broker-in-charge at RealtyLink

• Wallace Cheves, principal, Cheves Capital

The conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity.

David Dykes, editor, Integrated Media Publishing: Today, this outstanding panel of leaders is going to discuss these projects, and we're going to start with the big picture. I'm going to open it up to each one of the five of you. Just to start with, where is the market headed? Has the definition of mixed-use evolved in the Southeast over the last five to 10 years? And how will it change in the next decade?

Mary Katherine Phillips, senior director of investments at Edens: I think historically we've seen more horizontally integrated mixed-use projects across the Southeast, but I think as land costs continue to rise and zoning presents itself as a challenge, we'll start to see some more vertically integrated projects, continuing densification in urban moments of Charleston, Columbia, Raleigh, for example. While mixed-use used to be about co-locating uses, Edens sees it as an opportunity to create relationship-driven neighborhoods. So we're focused on creating these true community hubs rather than just optimizing for density and efficiency.

Reggie Bell, CEO of RealOp Investments: I think the uses in and of themselves within a mixed-use development are changing. The buzzword "experiential retail," you know, but (we're focusing on) more curated placemaking, places where people have to come on a weekly basis, and it's not just a once-a-month visit.

Dan Doyle, president, The Beach Company: We do both horizontal and vertically integrated mixed-use. The two are very different in terms of the execution, and the end result, much of what you've seen, particularly vertically integrated, a lot of it has been forced, whether it be through planning or zoning municipality requirements. And you end up with developments that have a gap or a hole. Horizontally mixed-use is oftentimes much more focused and integrated, and the types of uses complement one another. So, kind of where we've been and where we're going is really shifting more toward the horizontal, and we see that not only in terms of the type of tenant base that you're able to attract for those commercial uses being more attracted to it, but the capital markets as well. It's not to say that we're going to avoid the vertically integrated over the course of the next five years. It's just, we'll be very selective on how we go about doing that.

Austin Wilson, principal broker-in-charge at RealtyLink: I think that's a good point. Vertical integration is becoming a bigger part of what we're doing, especially as land costs continue to increase and zoning presents itself with some challenges. Health care is another thing that you're starting to see more and more of in the mixed-use projects. That's something that used to be more in a medical park that now is becoming more "med-tail." So we're seeing that, especially with the certificate of needs going away, more developers chasing those sorts of uses. Placemaking is also a critical piece of it, doing it successfully, creating an environment where people want to be, where they want to spend time and be together with friends and family.

Wallace Cheves, principal, Cheves Capital: What I've seen over the years is probably coming to fruition. We used to always say you have to meet the market instead of make the market, but we've always tried to stay interstate-based where the traffic is, and what can we do to pull people off the interstate. And so with Two Kings Casino, we tried to develop an area over 800 acres where it's live, work, and play, but you have to have that anchor tenant, the experiential fun, the entertainment side of it. Same thing we're doing at BridgeWay Station with GE Vernova Park, and the professional soccer. We want people to stay there, go to a game, hit a restaurant afterwards, and not have to drive far, hopefully, to their home.

Dykes: Let me jump right into technology. I'd like each of you to talk about technology, smart buildings, data analytics, AI, how is all of that impacting how you plan and operate mixed-use projects? Wallace, you want to take a stab at that?

Cheves: So, I always considered the business I was in as the anti-AI bet because you have live dealers, you have people that are going in, enjoying restaurants, and it takes a lot of people to run entertainment facilities. But to your point, as we build out apartments or townhomes, or look at some of the other areas, a lot of our engineers and architects are using AI, and quite frankly, on a project that we're in the middle of right now, there was a lot of savings where they could split up some of the building materials. Just asking the question and not being the know-it-all architect — not to offend any architects in the room — but that was something that I was super proud and happy that a $250 subscription to the cloud could provide.

Wilson: The emergence of the tech in our business has been very interesting. We have analytics now like Placer or AI, of course, and many more tools that are giving us a deep look into how different businesses are doing, what the retail sales look like. And I think it's an important thing to balance those tools as just tools and not … they become complementary to our intuition, and going with our gut. I think a lot of times people have a tendency to jump on some of these new technologies that come out. While they can supplement what we're doing, they don't replace what we're doing.

Doyle: Clearly, the positives we've seen in terms of technology, as you refer to, in the underwriting, the market research, how we're able to pull that information together much more quickly. We see it being used with our consultant base right now. We have not seen the return in terms of lower fees or anything like that, but hopefully that will come in time. But overall, it's something that one of the previous panels talked about. We mandate that use in our office, and we're seeing the benefits from that.

Bell: Yeah, I think it's made us a little bit more efficient. It's very helpful, of course, with underwriting and even credit analysis of tenants, you know, data analytics, but … it can do all those things, but it can't make people come to our developments. So that's where the art comes in. I don't think it's taken my job yet.

Phillips: It's interesting to hear everyone's responses because this is something we're spending a lot of time on right now at Edens, trying to understand how to be more efficient, and especially on the operations side. And I don't think we've even scratched the surface yet, but we're using it in similar ways as some of the other panelists have mentioned, in terms of analyzing new markets, analyzing new acquisition opportunities, credit analysis on tenants. We look at a lot of Placer data and have for years now. We use Copilot internally, but we have an internal task force trying to figure out the best way to integrate it into our day-to-day to create more operational efficiencies, but we definitely don't have the answer yet.

Dykes: Mary Katherine, I want to ask, is "office" still considered a viable anchor in mixed-use, or is it being replaced by other uses?

Phillips: I don't think it's necessarily being replaced. For Edens, it's not the approach that we've taken. We lead with retail and follow with residents, and we found that the projects that we're creating, we found multifamily to be the better complement to the retail that we're curating on site. But we're definitely not opposed to office as an anchor. It just hasn't been the approach we've taken so far.

Bell: Yeah, it's a great question. Wallace and I were talking earlier that we've been using the word ... we're beginning to get "office curious" again. But I think it's got to re-earn its place. It definitely has a place in mixed-use development, but it doesn't seem that it's an anchor as much as perhaps it was, let's say, 10 years ago. But it is coming back, and I think that office, especially with all of the amenities that can help end users recruit talent and has a little bit more of a cool factor to it, is definitely there. But I think it's like within mixed-use, it's got to be a balance. We don't want overexposure to any one use, but I think it definitely still has a place. It's just figuring out exactly what that is.

Doyle: If we were to do office, and what we've done in the past five years with the office that we have developed, it's not so much as… if you're going to do office, you have to have retail and other ancillary amenities to go along with it. The change in the office landscape is such that those buildings, those assets that can't offer amenities and services on-site, are not going to attract the tenant base. It's as simple as that. And so if we're going to do office in a market like Greenville or in downtown Charleston, both of which would have very, very low Class A office vacancies, it's going to come along with a full array of services and amenities to go with that.

Wilson: I agree with that. If you want to do office successfully, it has to be something cool and unique that is going to get people interested in it. And I would say office, like all the other asset classes, is dynamic. And the way we've seen office change is … what's kind of in vogue now is, headquarters, medical office building, co-work space done right, those kind of things. Maybe we're shying away from some of the more traditional office layouts and bringing in those amenities like you mentioned, the retail and the residential multifamily. Everything like that.

Cheves: I'm probably the wrong person to ask about office, but what we've seen is suppliers for some entertainment venues coming to us wanting flex space with a warehouse and offices. So that's been kind of unique for us. But as Reggie and I were talking earlier, we've also started buying … not abandoned, but buildings in larger US cities that you probably couldn't buy the dirt for, and they were abandoned offices folks had left in Covid, like Chicago. And what we're finding now is we're starting to lease up some of those buildings to charter schools and to AI data centers. And so they're bringing those into those buildings. Don't know that that would make sense in this market, but, BridgeWay, for example, where we're building the professional soccer stadium, GE Vernova Park, working with our developer there, he is looking into office and then stacking it with residential apartments above it, which I do think makes a lot of sense. So I'm encouraged about that.

Dykes: What about walkability and connectivity? I think you touched on that before. GE Vernova is going to be a good example of that. How did you, in your mind, fashion that to be a walkable, connected venue for spectators and fans alike?

Cheves: Yeah, that's super important for us. You know, people still love their cars. I don't know that we're at the point where we just tell everybody you better go Uber or take a Lyft somewhere. So we want to make sure that if a family needs to leave early and they've got four kids and grandma and they're bringing their Suburban in, they need a place to park, and they need a place that's accessible. Same thing for the casino. How quickly can you get an 82-year-old lady on a hover into an elevator or get her to a restroom, get her to a slot machine or to a restaurant? So accessibility for us was extremely important. And for the BridgeWay example right off I-85, having the walkable bridge across the interstate that ties into Mauldin High School and other areas, we've set up parking agreements because when they're out of school, no one's there at night, and we play our games at 7, so we go in and enter into parking arrangements with other businesses.

Wilson: I think the walkability and connectivity piece of the mixed-use projects is one of the linchpins making it successful. Having trail systems nearby — we're working on a project in Knoxville, Tennessee. It's 360 acres and ties into a major greenway system, about 40 miles of trails, moves people around the site. I think that's a critical piece, and it's becoming validated. We're seeing people out there now riding their bikes around and jogging and everything, and it's good to see that thing come to life. It's an important part of it.

Doyle: Pretty much everything we do is really focused on connection to the community, whether that's walkable or otherwise. And the other thing that we've seen, and this is validated through … you can talk to any research company that provides this data, the premium you're able to get for a mixed-use community, particularly on the residential side. That helps us when we're able to increase our rent projections based on the fact that we have these other uses and amenities associated with the overall development, because the cost to develop and build these communities is significantly higher than, let's say, if we were to do a garden apartment in a suburban location.

Bell: I think it really speaks to the density question. I mean, we're all used to telling our engineer at concept phase to "give me the most square footage you possibly can on this site," right? But that's not always the right thing. If we don't create walkable developments, then we end up with a lot of density and parking problems. So I think understanding and being careful about that balance is huge. I think we need walkability and we need shade, so I think it's highly important, even more so than it's ever been.

Phillips: I'd have to agree with everything that's been said. Connectivity is critical for us when it comes to site selection. For instance, in Charleston right now, we're working on a development called Ashley Landing, which is in the submarket of West Ashley. And this is 240,000 square feet of retail, 285 multi-family units, 100 townhomes, mixed-use community. Creating the most easily and safely accessible site has been a No. 1 priority for us. We've been working really closely with the city and the county to ensure that accessibility. We want to create places that feel a part of the physical fabric of the community, not a stand-alone development. So, we're realigning intersections, we're adding two signals, expanding sidewalks, you name it, spending a lot of dollars investing in the public infrastructure of the site so that it does not feel like a stand-alone development and feels like an extension of the neighborhood.

Bell: I was going to say one more thing on that point. For those of you that might not be from Greenville, speaking to the walkability point, that's why if you walk down downtown Greenville, why it seems to work so much. But in actuality, it used to be a four-lane highway running through the middle of downtown, and taking those outside lanes and making them large sidewalks really made it happen.

Dykes: And I think in Atlanta, the Beltway has been a good example, too. Mary Katherine, let me get back to you about Ashley Landing. How have you balanced community needs with financial performance?

Phillips: Finding this balance can be a real push-and-pull. We're balancing municipality needs, community needs, retailer needs, and then our financial investor needs. I think the most visible sign of that strive for balance, you can see in our tenant mix and the balance we're trying to find there with the highs and lows of F&B, service versus soft goods, national, regional, local retailers. We look at national, regional retailers as bringing visibility and stability to the site, but the local retailers creating that authenticity and fostering the real, true loyalty with the community. I'm fortunate to work at a company with 60 years of experience in this. I think that the ones that find the balance create great places, and great places don't change.

Dykes: Reggie, let me ask you, from an investment perspective, how are returns for mixed-use projects in the Southeast comparing to single-asset classes like industrial or multifamily?

Bell: I think generally retail has fared very well. I mean, over the last probably three years, we've really seen the asset classes cycle differently than we have before. For instance, industrial got hammered. We were in three-cap land for a while, and now we're in low sixes. Retail in and of itself, I think, has fared quite well with less volatility across that same thing. But in terms of mixed-use in and of itself, obviously single-asset classes are easier to underwrite, but I think with mixed use … it's more about execution on the part of the developer to seek out that alpha. And it's there. There are absolutely outsized returns. It's harder. It's more complex. But to answer your question, that mixed-use can absolutely generate higher returns than any single asset class can, if it's executed properly.

Dykes: Are investors still demanding simpler, mixed-use concepts now, or is there still an appetite for more complex, highly integrated developments?

Bell: Well, capital markets are tough right now. I mean, getting equity deals done with LPs is tough. I think complex is OK as long as it's not confusing, as long as it's planned well and risk is balanced well. There's certainly capital out there for it. And I think, again, complex is OK, (it) just can't be confusing.

Dykes: Dan, let me ask you to compare Columbia and Greenville. They're very different growth stories, but how are you tailoring your mixed-use strategy between a government education-driven market like Columbia to a faster-growing private-sector-driven market like Greenville?

Doyle: We have over 1,000 units in the Columbia market and 75,000 feet of commercial space associated with those assets. Here in Greenville, we've developed probably about 1,000 units. We have another project that is in development right now. Really, the differentiating factor between Columbia and Greenville, so much of it comes down to the operating expenses. And the biggest component of operating expenses in these two markets is real estate taxes. Richland County, City of Columbia, so much— I think the figure is somewhere at 35 or 38 percent of the tax base is what's taxable because of the government and university presence there. So our tax rates in Richland County are so much higher than anyplace else, and that's difficult to compete with. But on the flip side, a market like Columbia tends to be more stable. Because you have the government base there and the university. We don't see the highest of the highs, but we also don't see the lowest of the lows. And a market like Greenville right now, particularly multifamily, is a little bit soft. There's concessions in the market, and it makes it a little more difficult when you're going in there and trying to underwrite and talking to those capital market partners, and you get a lot of questions. So, it really ebbs and flows. You take the good with the bad. To us, they're both markets that we've invested in heavily, and we have a large presence, and we'll continue to do so.

Dykes: Beach Company also has deep roots in the coastal markets. How are climate resilience and insurance costs factoring into your mixed-use underwriting today?

Doyle: It's always front and center, particularly where you're developing on the coast, whether that's Charleston, Savannah, Wilmington, where we have a presence in all those markets. Insurance, we saw a huge spike over the past couple years, it really impacted how we were doing our underwriting as well as the operating performance of some of those assets. We did see about a 20 to 30 percent decline this past year, which is great news, and that's a direct reflection of where the markets are at. Just looking at Charleston as an example, though, on the front end, the development costs associated with doing something on the coast are so much more significant than what we would see building something here in the Upstate area. We have so many factors that we're dealing with, whether that is site conditions, wind zone, flood zone, the various advocacy and special interest groups that you have to deal with. It all adds cost. And in order for the deal to underwrite, that cost ultimately turns into what the cost is to occupy space there, whether that's to live or to rent. And ultimately, again, on the coast, it's a regional issue, but it's a significant issue along the coast: affordability. Particularly … what it costs to live there. And that's going to be a huge challenge that ... really requires a public-private sector solution. Private sector will not be able to solve the affordability issue that we face.

Dykes: Austin, let me switch to you and ask about RealtyLink. It's been active in grocery-anchored and necessity retail centers, but how are you evolving those formats into true mixed-use environments in Southeast markets?

Wilson: That's a good question. I think we touched on a lot of how the industry is changing. Grocery will always be a front runner. That's something that's a daily or weekly necessity for people. The other parts of the mixed-use that come into play complement it very well, whether that's entertainment, residential, multi-family, office component, different things like that, that comes in and gives people a lot of other reasons to come into the project and spend time and spend money. Of course, the placemaking is a critical component as well.

Dykes: Is RealtyLink going to lean further into mixed-use or is it going to stay primarily focused on retail with selective integration at various sites?

Wilson: Well, I think both of those platforms we will still be a part of. We do a lot of grocery-anchored, we do mixed-use, and the other asset classes as well. For me, the mixed-use is the focus. I think that's what people want, by and large. We work in about 30 different states right now doing projects, and every municipality that you work in is different, and what the project should look like in each area is different as well. So we try to ... "give the people what they want" sort of thing. And I think that's how you do it to make it successful.

Dykes: Wallace, let me turn to Two Kings again, which you mentioned earlier. How does that project reshape surrounding real estate demand in that area or that region?

Cheves: It's turned it on its head. We were fortunate to where ... we took a risk, 15 years ahead of (our) approval, to where we could tie up, call it 800 acres around, on each of the exits. But, it was just a vast acreage, nothing going on. And when we got our approval, it's taken time … because people want to see, "Is it going to be successful?", "Are the people going to show up?", "Are you going to expand?" And as we've done those things, you start getting crazy offers to where you see some fun things on the QSR side. It makes you kind of rethink about selling property to where you actually develop, build, and maybe you lease the space back. So having a unique … I hate to call it a monopoly, but having a monopoly like a casino on 85, 20 minutes outside of Charlotte, it's booming like a mini city. So, we're very fortunate for that.

Dykes: How did public-private partnerships like Two Kings differ from the conventional mixed-use financing structures in the Southeast?

Cheves: That's an easy question because we get zero dollars from any of those folks. I'd love to be with the smart folks on this panel and learn about how you can get some things from the city, but I think one thing that helped us is when we had to pitch North Carolina, pitch the federal government, pitch the local municipality and county, as we told them, we're not asking you for a penny. You know, we're not trying to get anything from you, just give us this license, let us build on our own dollar, and then you'll see the development around. And they're finally seeing a booming town. It was once a desolate town that had lost manufacturing and textiles that had left, and they're now seeing a big resurgence.

Dykes: What do you think overall is the biggest mistake developers are making these days?

Cheves: Gosh, I'm the wrong person to ask about that because I kind of feel like things that we didn't do three years ago — and something may have fallen through with a big mixed-use or rooftop community on a couple hundred acres — we're now partnering with AI Data Center, and we didn't even know what that was 18 months ago. So, I'm probably the wrong person to ask, but I just say keep an open mind, and you have to ride these things out. Sometimes something that seems like horrible news may be the best news you ever got three years from now. So it's patience, probably.

Dykes: Let me ask each of you to pinpoint the market you're most bullish on. Mary Katherine, we'll start with you.

Phillips: Well, I'm a Charleston resident, so I'd have to say Charleston. This is a market that we feel punches well above its weight class, both economically and demographically. South Carolina is a leader of growth in the country right now, but Charleston's benefiting from strong in-migration, diversified employment, and a very constrained land supply. So we're seeing the demand and need for thoughtfully designed mixed-use environments.

Bell: I'd probably go with Savannah. I mean, it's hard to deny the fact that they're, what, doubling the port, I think? So, a lot of growth heading there. But it's also got the interest of a lot of developers as well. But I think that's interesting. In terms of some tailwinds for rental growth, we like Jacksonville a lot, and also Sarasota.

Doyle: Charleston's home, much like Mary Katherine. We've been in business for over 80 years in Charleston, so if I didn't say Charleston, something would be wrong. It's got so many great things going for it, but really the Southeast in general. I mean, we're in the Triangle, Wilmington, the Upstate here. This is a place we want to be. And I'm just thankful that we've continued our focus here on the Southeast.

Wilson: No, I agree with what all the experts have said. Coming out of Covid, you've seen a tremendous migration from some dense cities down to the Southeast, and it's been great for growth and for business down here in the Carolinas, and Tennessee and Georgia, Florida. I think that kind of migration will just continue. It's probably slowed down a little, but there's a lot of opportunities here in the Carolinas, especially in the Upstate.

Cheves: As a Greenvillian, as a native, I'd have to say Greenville, because I remember growing up here when you wouldn't come downtown. And so it's been a lot of fun. We have a company store for the Greenville Triumph on Main Street. Our project technically sits in Mauldin, South Carolina, for the stadium. So I kind of feel like the Upstate in general is kind of gravitating, and people don't mind commuting and coming in to places, not to say that Greenville, as an epicenter, is part of the market I'm most encouraged about.

Dykes: And Wallace, let me ask you this as we wrap up. What one word would you use to describe the future of mixed-use?

Cheves: I mean, for me, it would have to be people.

Wilson: Place-setting.

Doyle: Opportunity.

Bell: Authenticity.

Phillips: Those are good ones. I'll go with multigenerational.

Dykes: Great, thank you. I want to express our appreciation for all the panelists this morning and this afternoon, please. Thank you all for your participation.